Interviewer: Hello Ms. Auelhan, thank you for agreeing to this interview with our newspaper.
Question: What is a typical day like in the concentration camp?
Gulzira Auelhan: In the morning, the police and teachers take us from the dormitory to the classroom. In the classroom, we sing songs and, before meals, we sing “Without the Communist Party, There Would Be No New China.” The class content is to study Xi Jinping’s thoughts and party policies. We have 14 hours of political classes daily, with two bathroom breaks. If anyone returns late, the police hit them on the head with electric batons. During the classes, we also have to write reflections, confessions, and thank-you letters to the Party, along with future plans and thoughts. Each essay must be about four pages long. Since my Chinese is not good, I wrote in Kazakh, and the teacher translated it. Every student reads their essay aloud.
Question: Do you sing “Without the Communist Party, There Would Be No New China” in Uyghur or Chinese?
Gulzira Auelhan: We must sing in Chinese. If anyone sings it wrong, they are scolded. Self-introductions must also be in Chinese. There are Falun Gong practitioners, Uyghurs, and Kazakhs in the camps. Those who know Chinese write in Chinese; those who know Uyghur write in Uyghur.
Question: How many people are in a class?
Gulzira Auelhan: The last time, there were 68 people, the most ever. Generally, there are 40-50 people, with numbers fluctuating as some are transferred to other prisons or reeducation centers. The smallest dormitory houses 12 people, and the largest houses 66 people in one large dormitory.
Question: You mentioned Falun Gong practitioners in the reeducation center. Are they Han Chinese or other ethnicities? How do you know they are Falun Gong practitioners?
Gulzira Auelhan: I was taken to a prison in Beishanpo on July 19, 2017, and transferred to another reeducation center in September. After staying in the new dormitory for two days, there were 8 Hui women and 9 Han women. One woman, Ma Xiurui, was the team leader and spoke Kazakh. They were detained because of Falun Gong. Two days later, they were transferred to another cell. The people there helped me a lot when I first arrived, including helping me make my bed. Besides Uyghurs, there were also Falun Gong practitioners, Hui, Kyrgyz, and an elderly woman from Turkey.
Question: The elderly woman from Turkey, was she Turkish or an ethnic Turk detained in the camp?
Gulzira Auelhan: The Turkish woman’s mother was Uyghur, who sought refuge in Turkey in the 1940s and married a Turkish man. She came to Xinjiang to visit her mother’s homeland and was detained. She was released 10-15 days later. I didn’t know much about her mother’s situation as we couldn’t communicate much in prison. There was also a Kazakh girl who was a student in Beijing and was detained during her 20-day holiday in Xinjiang. When I asked why she was detained, she said her phone had a VPN for studying. Another Hui girl from Shanghai had a similar situation.
Question: Are you saying Chinese police have methods to know what software is on everyone’s phones and can arrest people without their consent if they find VPNs?
Gulzira Auelhan: Yes, they physically check phones. In Xinjiang, there is a requirement to report to the police if someone visits your home. If the police find VPNs on visitors’ phones, they detain them. They might release them later if they manage to get proof from their schools.
Question: There was a woman named Zhou Shuren in the reeducation center. She was detained for wanting to build a bigger house for her son’s wedding, which the local government considered a complaint. She was paralyzed and in a wheelchair, and I helped her with chores. We formed a close bond. They accused her of being a Falun Gong practitioner, but I am unsure if it was true.
Question: What kept you going during detention, especially when forced to do many things?
Gulzira Auelhan: Initially, I was terrified and missed my family. I was injected with something that made me feel like a zombie, only focusing on eating and losing any thoughts, like a machine. Despite the inhumane conditions, my husband’s efforts and international organizations eventually led to my release. I still live in fear but continue to speak out for my fellow detainees, hoping they will be released.
Question: You mentioned injections; were they forced? Did everyone have to get injections?
Gulzira Auelhan: When we first arrived at the reeducation center, 22 women were taken to a women’s and children’s hospital for a full-body examination, including a genital examination. After returning to the reeducation center, we were told we had to get a flu shot after three months due to the risk of spreading diseases. It cost 250 yuan, but I’m unsure if our families or the government paid. We were forced to get the shot; otherwise, we would be transferred to another reeducation center. After the injection, women stopped menstruating and experienced memory loss.
Question: To your knowledge, were these injections only for women?
Gulzira Auelhan: The reeducation center was for female detainees. Male police officers conducted interrogations and patrolled at night. During my 15-month detention, I was interrogated 19 times, mostly by male officers.
Question: In Uyghur culture, isn’t it inappropriate for men and women to be too close?
Gulzira Auelhan: I don’t know much about Uyghur customs, but I have seen Uyghurs in prison in Ili Prefecture, where many Kazakhs live.
Question: Did you know your husband and international organizations were working to rescue you while you were in prison, or did you only find out after your release?
Gulzira Auelhan: While in prison, we only focused on learning and didn’t know much about the outside world. After my release, I could contact my husband via WeChat. He urged me to quickly get a passport and leave the country. I was told by officials to lie about losing my passport or being ill for 15 months. I managed to get documents and proof with difficulty before finally leaving for Kazakhstan.
Question: What experience left the deepest impression on you, and how did your time in the reeducation center affect your cultural and self-awareness?
Gulzira Auelhan: In 2017, the State Security Bureau told me I was detained for going to Kazakhstan, which they considered a terrorist-related country. The teachers in the center stressed assimilation with Han Chinese, such as eating, working, and intermarrying with them. I feared this strong assimilation policy would erase our religion and language. After arriving here, I have been interviewed often, losing contact with my family due to my public statements.
Question: Which specific branch of the State Security Bureau informed you, and at what level?
Gulzira Auelhan: It was the local State Security Bureau in Ili Prefecture. My eldest daughter was also detained in 2017 because her passport expired. I only met her after my release. My passport was seized at the Khorgos border in January 2017, and I was interrogated overnight. They released me but required me to participate in a 15-day study to see my father.
Question: Did you eventually see your father?
Gulzira Auelhan: Visits to my father required applications. After my release in October 2018, I wanted to see him, but I was under surveillance. From October 14-17, 2018, Secretary Song forced me to sign a contract to work in a black factory. He assigned me to a glove factory, demanding three months of work for 600 yuan a month before I could return to Kazakhstan. I occasionally returned home but faced restrictions.
Question: What did you do during those three months?
Gulzira Auelhan: I made gloves at a textile factory in Ili Prefecture.
Question: How were the living conditions at the factory?
Gulzira Auelhan: We were under surveillance, transported by bus from the dormitory to the factory at 4 am Beijing time. We had a few minutes to eat before an hour-long study of Party policies. I had some freedom to use the bathroom, unlike in the classroom. We could use our phones and had Wi-Fi in the factory. We went home on weekends.
Question: What is your impression of China? When did you first hear about China, and what does it mean to you?
Gulzira Auelhan: Growing up in Xinjiang, I had little concept of China as a nation. In 2017, during detention, the teachers talked about the reeducation policy, initially targeting government workers, teachers, and police, expanding to the general public by April 11, 2017, aiming for global expansion by 2050. They emphasized the importance of calling Xinjiang “China Xinjiang” and promoting Chinese language and products worldwide.
Question: Some international human rights advocates call the region “East Turkestan,” “Uyghuristan,” or “Zungharia.” As a Kazakh, do you think these terms are accurate, or is there a specific term you prefer?
Gulzira Auelhan: I respect everyone’s views and terminology. As an ordinary person, I’m not a historian or politician and have never demanded independence. I was detained for visiting Kazakhstan. Some Uyghurs have similar thoughts, but I don’t have strong opinions on terminology.
I respect people of all ethnic groups, including Han Chinese, Uyghurs, and others. Every ethnic group has good and bad individuals. China has 56 ethnic groups, and it is impossible to categorize them as good or bad. During Deng Xiaoping’s era, the ethnic policies were somewhat better. My grandfather told me that when he was 11 years old during Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution, he burned the Quran. Now, the Quran is being used as toilet paper again; history is repeating itself. But I will not blame the Han Chinese people for this. It is a dictatorial policy, formerly Mao Zedong’s dictatorship and now Xi Jinping’s. I hope we can strengthen cooperation regardless of ethnicity or region.
The Three Districts area has been the territory of the Kazakh nomads since ancient times. The tomb of the hero of the Three Districts Revolution, Ospan Batyr, is still monitored by the Chinese government to prevent anyone from worshipping it. In 1943, the Kazakh poet Tangjaryk Joldy was tortured to death in the Nationalist Party prison under Sheng Shicai. In 2017, I also “experienced” the poet’s ordeal again; history is repeating itself.
Question: After arriving in the United States, what is your daily life like? Do you work in human rights? Can you tell us about it?
Answer: Mr. Bob Fu helped me come to the United States, and I want to thank Mr. Fu and ChinaAid, as well as my friends in Taiwan. Mr. Fu has done a lot, constantly helping victims of religious persecution, including Falun Gong practitioners and Christians. Since arriving in the U.S., as well as when I was in Kazakhstan, I have continuously given interviews. The main problem is the language barrier, as I don’t understand Chinese or English well. I worry about translation errors. I have testified before, including on forced labor issues, and have been working hard to push for legislation against forced labor. I have met with members of Congress. Occasionally, I see products from China in American stores, and it makes me sad. I worry these products might come from forced labor factories, possibly made with others’ tears. I hope Western countries and the international community prioritize human rights over economic interests. I want all detainees to be released. I plan to continue rescuing others, speaking out, and giving media interviews. I want to write a book and make documentaries to document these experiences for future generations. During my time in the re-education center, the teachers said the Chinese government would use soft power to dominate the global market. A pair of gloves costs ten cents to make in China but sells for 250 yuan abroad. We need stricter policies to sanction these products from China. I hope to shut down these forced labor factories and inhumane prisons, and I want everyone, regardless of ethnicity or region, to be freed.
Question: Are the teachers in the re-education camps Han Chinese?
Answer: There are Han teachers, Kazakh teachers, and Uyghur teachers, but the top leaders are all Han.
Answer: I have some unresolved issues. During my two years of disappearance, there was no legal verdict, so I am not a criminal. I hope to use legal means to continue litigation and seek compensation, as well as redress for others. I don’t understand why some Uyghurs and others overseas still use Chinese products and cooperate with Chinese companies. In the U.S., I have not bought any Chinese products. Back then, I only earned 250 yuan a month working 14 hours a day because I couldn’t meet the standards. Those people live on the brink of death, and if they dissent, they are either imprisoned or forced into labor. So, I hope to continue speaking out for them.
In the U.S., I have three main feelings: First, fear. Before coming to the U.S., I thought there were no Chinese products, but I found cheap Chinese goods everywhere after arriving. I worry these goods are from forced labor and need to be sanctioned. I also learned that people use the Temu app to order products, but this is a Chinese-made app, and using similar Chinese apps poses privacy risks, like TikTok. Lastly, I discovered that Xinjiang people in the U.S. tend to use Chinese goods, which is a bad trend.
Gulzira wants to say to the readers:
I have always participated in activities supporting Uyghurs or Chinese, but each time I get marginalized. I am either mistaken for a Uyghur or forced to support independence. I want to focus on human rights issues, identifying as a member of the Kazakh ethnic group. To this day, Han Chinese in Xinjiang can travel abroad, but Kazakhs still face restrictions. During my detention, I was beaten, humiliated, and tortured for two years. I will demand compensation for the mental suffering. During this time, the police hit my head. They told me they couldn’t leave evidence of torture, so they used electric batons on my hair. I have kidney problems, menstrual issues, and constant headaches. I hope for justice and will persist.
My benefactors and close friends are international journalists, including those from the BBC, ABC, Al Jazeera, and others. You are now my best friends, and I will always stand on the side of justice. I will continue my struggle and am willing to accept your interviews anytime, anywhere.
I have great respect for the people of Taiwan and China Aid. They have helped us a lot, finding lawyers and legal channels for us. I support the people of Taiwan. In prison, I saw persecuted Falun Gong practitioners, and I will not remain silent.
In some videos, you can see me testifying about forced labor for two hours. Afterward, the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act was passed. Many Kazakh witnesses contributed significantly to exposing forced labor incidents, but the news and legal discussions only focus on the Uyghurs and the Uyghur Genocide. Some reports even refer to me as a Uyghur. Before passing these acts, we gathered in front of Congress, but the reports only mention Uyghur forced labor. There was no evidence of forced labor during Rebiya Kadeer’s time, but with my testimony, many articles on forced labor have been published, and the Uyghur Act was passed. Kazakhs have made significant contributions to exposing forced labor and re-education camps, but they are not mentioned. I am angry about this, and I hope the media can report fairly and impartially, not one-sidedly. Thank you.
Lastly, I am glad you accepted our interview. Thank you.
(This interview was reviewed by Ms. Gulzira; the translation was assisted by Meiirbek in France, and we express our gratitude.)
